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1 Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles / Commercial Space Flight General / Re: Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2) on: Today at 07:39 AM
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on Today at 05:59 AM


What Bigelow is doing is more like leasing a flat or workshop.


No "leasing". It's only rent.
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2 Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles / Commercial Space Flight General / Re: Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2) on: Today at 05:31 AM
Quote from: QuantumG on Today at 05:06 AM

Quote from: Valerij on Today at 05:04 AM

Hotel Bigelow


I recommend not using the word "Hotel" to refer to anything Bigelow Aerospace is doing. They have denied any such activities.


It agree, this true remark. "Hotel Bigelow" is not the correct name. And I as am assured that personal space tourism will not be at first a basis of business Bigelow Aerospace. But in Russia many business centres were created in large hotels, and many in them exist till now, therefore this name has settled.

By analogy would be more correct to name "Space Business Centre Bigelow". ::)

I ask me to excuse.
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3 Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles / Commercial Space Flight General / Re: Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2) on: Today at 05:04 AM
Quote from: pathfinder_01 on Today at 01:02 AM

Quote from: spectre9 on Today at 12:31 AM

Bigelow wasted money on Dnepr, Musk didn't.

I'd say Musk is now ahead.

He'll give Bigelow a helping hand now though so he doesn't have to buy that Atlas V he's been talking about.


No, Bigelow and Musk have different objectives. Bigelow wanted a test of his spacecrafts in orbit. At the time Musk could not provide that. However now that Musk has established himself it makes sense to use Falcon.


And where here "different objectives"? At Bigelow and Musk different firms. But these kinds of business is cumulative one for another.

Hotel Bigelow is impossible, while there is no the transport, capable to deliver clients in hotel and to return them from hotel to the Earth. SpaceX basically creates not only hotel Bigelow delivery system into an orbit. First of all Musk creates such automobile, and it already now has a delivery system of the various materials necessary for work of hotel Bigelow in an orbit.

Moreover. The ideology of business SpaceX basically differs from business of other space firms. Other firms basically try to derive the maximum profit from each flight. Therefore in their work there is no aspiration to lower cost of delivery of a payload into an orbit. Musk, on the contrary, declared the purpose to create concerning inexpensive transport. So, in due time, Henry Ford declared that its car should be rather inexpensive that many could buy it. We now well know about existence of the commercial market. Almost any person (and any state), having money, can 1) to order the "Sputnik" and 2) to order its start on orbits.
And many countries do it, including of prestige reasons.

Hotel Bigelow and SpaceX together create the new space market. The market on which any country or the firm having sufficient means, can send the person into an orbit. Thus requirements to preparation of this person are shown rather simple. To prepare such "cosmonaut" it is possible quickly, and this preparation does not demand that some months "cosmonaut" would live in Zveznom

Approximately so has occurred, when Commandant Cousteau has invented an aqualung. But "space tourism" is rather expensive, and still long time will be inaccessible to the average person. Therefore, it is quite probable that space tourism becomes very prestigious kind of rest (compare to races of yachts, or aviation and a car racing of first half of twentieth century) and then business of "space hotels" becomes very favourable. But it will thus be found out that only SpaceX basically it is ready to work on so quickly extending market and to earn profit in the conditions of the falling price for delivery of a payload for an orbit.

But also that not all. After that naturally there will be a question about "returning to the Moon". And here then it will be found out that SpaceX, having fulfilled on Grasshopper technologies, can create reusable "Moon's Grasshopper". Which, in turn, can lower considerably cost "returnings to the Moon".....

Therefore it is possible to tell that while the others look at what market of space services now, Bigelow and Musk look at what this market can already become in the near future. Also work. I need to wish only them in it successes and good luck. And to look at them (alas, from outside) with admiration.
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4 Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles / SpaceX General Section / Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6) on: 09/30/2012 08:14 PM
Quote from: hrissan on 09/30/2012 01:29 PM

Quote from: Comga on 09/29/2012 11:29 PM

Not my point. Your statement is another shaky interpretation of the English translation. The question was what did it sound like in Russian.

What Popvkin said: Я скажу одну крамольную мысль. Мое глубокое убеждение, что лет через пять SpaceX окажется в собственности либо Boeing, либо Lockheed Martin.

What this means: I'll tell you something you do not expect. I'm absolutely sure in 5 years SpaceX will be the property of either Boeing or Lockheed Martin.

I live in Russia and have read words Popovkins in Russian. Therefore I understand that Popovkin very much hopes that in some years SpaceX will be sold. In its opinion any large old aerospace firm (Boeing or Lockheed Martin) becomes the buyer. And words Popovkins for me are not unexpected. He cannot tell anything else because he all life learnt to perceive the validity only thus. SpaceX for Popovkins as heresy for Tommáso de Torquemada.

Moreover, if in the conditions of the limited resources it is possible to create SpaceX and for ten years to create from zero a rocket and a spaceship everything that Popovkin now does, has negative value. Popovkin now strengthens state influence, liquidates a competition and commerce from the Russian space industry. It is natural that Popovkin does it clear to it in the ways.

Though Popovkin to me is nice, I understand that he is mistaken. It is impossible to say simultaneously that the space industry in Russia too big, and simultaneously to exclude from the national space program sixteen points because RosKosmos could not execute them in time
But I suggest not to speak here about it, I simply establish the fact that Popovkin is not the competent expert concerning future SpaceX.

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5 Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles / SpaceX General Section / Re: SpaceX to begin testing on Reusable Falcon 9 technology this year on: 09/23/2012 01:03 AM
Quote from: Mader Levap on 09/22/2012 12:51 AM

That was small jump for Grasshopper, but giant leap for SpaceX? ;D

YES!
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6 Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles / Commercial Space Flight General / Re: Orbital space tourism business model on: 08/25/2012 03:16 PM
Quote from: JohnFornaro on 08/25/2012 02:18 PM

Quote from: Valerij on 08/24/2012 07:24 PM

Such flight close enough analogy to long sea cruise.

Well no. The analogy is only similar in the length of time, about three months. I assure you that it is far more interesting to spend $100-$200K to cruise Earthly ports than it would be to spend those three months and $35M looking at the stars, your four walls, and pooping less frequently.


I perfectly understand a difference between round-the-world sea cruise in cost $100K - $200K and space cruise $35M. Modern owners of the largest yachts have enough money what to order space cruise. And the basic advantage from their point of view will be that such cruise is accessible to very limited number of people.

It is not enough such clients, all no more than several tens a year. But it is quite enough, possibilities of space hotel too are insignificant, no more than twenty-thirty visitors in a year. And they will not buy inexpensive tickets for suborbital flights or for some hours in an orbit


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7 Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles / Commercial Space Flight General / Re: Orbital space tourism business model on: 08/24/2012 07:24 PM
Quote from: Orbital Debris on 08/21/2012 02:09 AM

Links posted on the Bigelow thread indicate ~35 million for 3 months.

I would agree that no single billionaire would be away from business for extended stays. Extensive comm coverage means investing in bandwidth and ground stations. Extended stays mean extensive training.

I think extended stays would be oriented toward sovereign nations and corporate.

As far as health affects - the negative (calcium loss, radiation) effects of zero g would outweigh health effects. Calcium sloughing begins within a 24 hours of reaching orbit.

I assume that enough expensive long (2-3 months) flight in space hotel too quickly becomes popular. And $35M the real price for such flight.

1) Such flight close enough analogy to long sea cruise.

2) For businessmen of video of conference instead of direct participation solve the majority of problems. The Internet and a reliable communication allow the businessman not to come off for a long time management of the enterprises.

3) Rupture of the prices between short-term stay in an orbit and long space cruise will create atmosphere elite "the closed club". In a year only 20-30 persons can visit such mode in hotel.

4) Travel companies will certainly undertake efforts for increase of popularity of such flights. For example, they can send in hotel of any celebrities, known politicians, sportsmen or popular actors, is possible after their career end. And pay flight of this celebrity sponsors can, and this event can be used in the advertising company of the sponsor.

But creation of "space hotel" and a spaceship which will bring to this hotel of clients, very much will accelerate the future events